Genre

Vincent Gallo has been many things in his thirty-six years; he's got a band, and a record deal with Sony. He was a very successful artist, showing with New York's prestigious Holly Solomon gallery. He was a Calvin Klein CK man for both its print and TV advertising campaigns.

He has appeared in movies such as The Funeral, Palookaville, Truth or Consequences, N.M. and House of the Spirits. This month, he stars with Angelica Huston, Christina Ricci, and Ben Gazzara in Buffalo '66, which he also wrote and directed. The film was a major sensation at this year's Sundance Film Festival. Buffalo '66 will, perhaps, become most notorious in the gay community for a scene in which Gallo's character has a homophohic meltdown, stemming from the belief he's being cruiscd for sex in a men's room.

Those who can get past that scene, however, will see a story that should resonate with anyone who has ever felt alone and unloved--dreamed of finding a connection with another human being.

The real Vincent Gallo, it appears, is anything but homophobic. In fact, he credits gay men with helping to nurture his self-esteem, and his artistic and intellectual development. He also freely admits that gay men were helpful in nurturing his often-empty stomach. He speaks candidly of his experiences hustling in the peep shows and sex palaces that to line New York's 42nd Street-back before its Disney-fication-when it was called "The Deuce."

Gallo still keeps frequent company with gay men. Photographer David Armstrong, who shot the pictures for this story and participated in the interview, is one of several. While not quite run-of-the-mill, men like Gallo are not as unusual as it would seem. His gay-for-pay experiences notwithstanding, there are many men whose focus is heterosexual, who are not physically attracted to other men, and yet still feel comfortable around gay men-comfortable enough to pursue and maintain long-lasting, important friendships with them.

Here, Gallo talks about his own experiences and relationships with gay men. Clearly, we inspire and disappoint him in equal measure. Gallo's story kicks off a two-part Genre Special Report, Just Men: The Gay and Straight of It.

It's complex, but I'll try to explain it the best that I can. When I came to New York City for the first time, I was 15 years old. I was visiting with some rock'n'roll friends who were in a band. I left Buffalo [where he was born] very alienated, very un-nurtured and unloved ... all the things that people normally complain about at that time in their lives but to the extreme, because my experience was not so ordinary. The abuse was a little more severe; my looks were more unusual and sensitivity was a little more extreme. I felt what most people might feel, but I felt it in a very severe, complex way. So, I took the subway to West Fourth Street, because I knew that was the Village. I walked west, not knowing it was the gay neighborhood. I had gay friends in Buffalo. In fact, the only cool places to go were gay clubs-that's where the freaky punks and people who listened to progressive music went.

Homosexual men and straight men used to have this common bond; used to have an aesthetic bond; a counter-cultural bond; a subversive bond, and they were similarly alienated. Interesting straight men were frequently close to very interesting homosexual men. They were bonded by things which were underground, esoteric, creative and cultural ... not like now. The gay scene is embarrassing to me now ... it's all about Dolce & Gabanna and Prada. Everybody looks the same and dresses the same-they're all label queens. (laughs) There's no relationship culturally-between gay men and straight men anymore. Things have changed so much in the West Village. I used to sell Barbra Streisand and Judy Garland albums there. I would go to Goodwill and buy records for 50 cents, and sell them for 10 bucks.

I have all those records. I have everything she did. But, now, there's no scene where there's a gay crowd and straight crowd mixing together with a common sense of revolution.

Revolution? A lot of folks are now saying "there's no way to push the envelope anymore. It's been pushed as far as it can go:" Nothing is shocking at this point. Do you think that's because gay people have lost their edge, or is it just a problem everyone's facing?

The avant-garde never focused on being "new" as its objective. The beauty of the New York scene when I was first exposed to it was that people were willing to be alienated, they were ready to pay the price. Homosexuals were ready to celebrate a type of sexual behavior without requiring that everyone accept that behavior.

So, you think gay men have become so preoccupied with assimilating into straight society that they've traded in their souls? Is that what you're saying?

Sexual behavior, in its own right, should not be observed as being radical or mainstream. Homosexual culture has more than just fellatio behind it. It's deeper than just the sexual act. The gay community has put so much focus on what the mainstream thinks of them that they've pandered to those notions of what being gay is.

But don't you think that's an "old guard" notion? I don't think 17-year~olds and GenX-ers think that way.

But the older activists have a lot of power and they'll be around for another 30 or 40 years.

Then, there's the group that says "Sexuality is fluid.The notion of 'straight' and 'gay' are just illusions, and irrelevant"

Which is just one more cultural phenomenon of the 20th century~where people have subdivided into smaller and smaller microcosms, and they protect the walls of these microcosms with all their might. When I came to New York in the early '70s, I had deep contact, deep relationships, and deep compassion for the homosexual community. I had a social, celebratory and creative relationship with it. There were sexualized relationships with men who were attracted to me and platonic ones with men who just liked me. Now, 20 years later, I rarely interact with the gay underground in any way. Gay men don't flirt with me or come on to me in any way, ever. Because of my age, and this shift in the gay aesthetic, I have less appeal to homosexual men. I was weirder looking then, but the gay community embraced me with all its might. But, now, if I'm not dressed in a clone-like way, I am ignored by gay men. Chicks like it now. You know, I couldn't get laid by a girl in the '70s. Now, they dig me! (laughs) What does it mean? I'm the same guy who was a gay magnet in the '70s and now I'm a chick magnet.

Do you think it's because you're not 17 anymore, or because it's not the '70s anymore?

Definitely the latter. Tomorrow, David Armstrong will take my picture. The last time he shot me I was 16. I certainly express myself similarly. My look and my interests are similar, but the photographs are bound to represent me in a different context. Maybe if I compare them I'll be able to map how I became more attractive to women and less attractive to men.

Do you want us to do a reader poll and find out? 'Attention Genre Readers! Even though he's not gay, Vincent Gallo's need for affirmation is so overwhelmingly huge that he is absolutely crushed that you're not hot for him anymore. Please take a minute to fill out the following questionnaire and tell him why, won't you?' Is this why you want to be on the cover of a gay magazine, so you can see whether you've still got the old magic?

The gay icon is horrific ... it's a mainstream, homophobic and disease-phobic image. It's AIDS-phobic. If you're skinny, you're thought of as unhealthy. You can't even have dark circles under your eyes. Twenty years ago, no one ever put concealer under my eyes-or retouched. It was OK to look sensitive or emotional, people thought that was attractive. But you can't look like that now without being identified as subversive, a substance abuser, or sick. I understand it when the mainstream reacts like that, but how did the gay community, which was about radicalism, come to that? It freaks me out so much that I feel like I might break through some wall by being on the cover of a gay magazine. I want the evolution of humankind to evolve to include a bigger perspective on how we all interact. Plus, (grins) I don't like being unsexy or washed-up at the age of 36 in the eyes of gay men!

Smart answer. Now speaking of attractiveness to the gay community, tell me about hustling.

For a lot of straight guys, having sex with men for money really exaggerates any homophobia they might have-really makes them hate and resent gay men.You don't seem to have that problem.Why do you think that is?

Well, I did love sex from the beginning, so sex for money was never a hardship in that way...

Yes, because any sexual circumstance was interesting. It wasn't always a turn-on per se, but--mostly--I would just do jerk-off things watching straight porn. It was easy. Of course, I did things I would prefer remain private, but let me assure you I never did those things because I could only act them out in that context. The thing about me is I can have sex with things that don't turn me on ... most of the girls I had sex with at that point in my life didn't turn me on.

I was a bit repulsed by everyone I had sex with, and I had no boundaries ... so, my need to be loved or liked by everyone allowed me to make myself available. I would never have gone into a peep booth with a guy if i didn't need the money, but I never would have had sex with the girls I had sex with if I wasn't sexually compulsive. I had this uncontrolled, compulsive disorder: the sex I had with men was for money ... the sex I had with women was purely compulsive.

But how come you're not resentful of the johns? So many straight guys who have homosexual sex--as hustlers, in porn, etc.--are really homophobic and filled with disdain for their audience.

The men I had sex with were nice to me. My memory of it is they were the only people who found me attractive, sexy and worthwhile. Girls were not nice to me! Men were. And even though I wasn't turned on by it, I don't resent these men. I have only deep love for the gay men that I was close with--all these filmmakers and artists and brilliant men I was surrounded by. How could I be homophobic about those experiences? I guess I'm not insecure in that way.

(laughs) It's a breakthrough moment. We've discovered the only way you're not insecure.

(laughs) No! It's just that any sexual behavior that's not procreative is a threat to the evolution of humankind ... so, regardless of what anybody says, it should be celebrated! Not "We want to be on TV and we want normal relationships just like you." You should feel different, the same way I felt different or like the way people who don't want to get married are different or who don't want to work a normal job. I related to that! And now the gay community is so conservative and uptight! I feel very let down! So, the only radical behavior I can think is to be bold or outspoken, and to cause stress to my employers (big, major grin).

No. It's always been true, but since the boundaries between straights and gays are more defined now it's just easier to identify. The men who I know who are like that seem to enjoy the lack of sexual tension. I like sexual tension, so I can't relate to it. I wish I had sexual tension with everyone! I want every one to want me. I wish that every gay man in the world wanted me!

(sheepish grin) And they don't! First of all, I use the words 'fag' and 'queer' a lot, and I think gay men don't like that because they can't see the irony or humor in it. I love the word 'fag'! A gay manager was once interested in working with me. When he read the script for Buffalo '66, he seriously suggested that I take the word 'faggot' out. I could keep the scene and call the guy anything else, but I had to take the word 'faggot' out. It was a major crusade for him.

Do you have any theories as to why gay magazines interview straight people and never talk about sex?

Publicists! First of all, publicists suck. That's one obstacle. But most straight people who appear in gay magazines are serving their self interest only. I'm doing it because I want to change the world!

Yes! Yes! A serious activist! This is not about my career, believe me. I wouldn't have put a homophobic scene in the beginning of my film if I was targeting a gay audience. I wouldn't have called Gus Van Sant a 'queer' at Sundance...

He's one of your favorite filmmakers, too, eh? Now, tell me something. Buffalo '66 is clearly autobiographical, but the main character is chaste, pee-shy, and he doesn't want to be touched or looked at. Yet, we've just had this lengthy discussion about all the sex you've had.What gives?

It took me a long time to connect sex and love. They were not even distant relatives for most of my life. So, when I understood that sex could be a shared bonus of intimacy, not a replacement for love and compassion, I was almost incapable of enjoying detached sexual experiences again. Sex with intimacy is the only sex that I really like anymore. So, the character is turned off by non-intimate sex.

Yes, and that was one of the connections I felt with them! But the point of the film is that the character can't detach intimacy from sex. The only thing which can satisfy him is pure intimacy, even intimacy without sex. It is his pure yearning. Sex for me is only good after I get to know someone a little. That's why I don't cheat on my girlfriends. I flirt a lot, because I like the attention, but I never act on it.

Aren't you multi-dimensional? Speaking of which, tell me about your band, Bunny.

Well, the band used to be just me. I'm signed with Sony records. I had six songs for the album, but I used them for the soundtrack of Buffalo '66. After the movie was done, I shot some ads for Costume National. Homme hired this young actor, Lukas Haas. I almost did the job just to work with him. I had this real attraction to Lukas. I think he's the most beautiful, perfect boy. He's meek and handsome and likable in a very special way. When he found out I collect vintage guitars and sound reproduction equipment, he responded so enthusiastically that I let him see my collection. After he saw the guitars, he told me he played. So, we tuned up a couple of guitars, and I'm nervous because, aside from the band I'll Wear You with Danny Rosen and the band Grey with Jean-Michel Basquiat, jamming with people is always horrible. As a joke, I put on one of the tape machines, figuring it would suck, but, from the first note, we clicked. We played for 40 minutes. It was so good I called my A&R guy and told him 'Lukas Haas is in Bunny.' So, now it's the two of us. Next week, we drive to L.A. to record the album.

I wouldn't care if it was a moose cock--I'd pay $ 100,000. My feeling is that unless I had the biggest dick in the whole world, there would always be someone else...

So you think its a guy--not a straight or gay--thing that we all need to compete?

I don't want to compete. I want to be the richest, the most handsome, and have the biggest dick (laughs).

I want to eliminate any categories where I could be rejected. To tell you the truth, I would give up two inches of my hard to gain one inch of soft. It really only matters how it looks soft because it's inside when it's hard. But for that bathroom shot, when you come out of the shower...

Genre Magazine